HIV AIDS Transmission By Sex (Intercourse) - HIV AIDS Transmission By Kissing (Salivary)?
Salam to all members
my wife face HIV Problems since two years she is OK.feeling normel PCR is ok
tested in Safa Hosp Islamabad but still in blood present.during my vacation i meet her (Mubashret) its ok for me any precation for me during Mubashert requried.but already I meet her Dr,in Hosp tel her that its ok there in no problem for ur husband.pls Dr,Riwan & Respected members reply.Thanks
Yes still you need extreme precautions. Use barrier methods like condom during intercourse. The condom should be of high quality that could not be ruptured with force full strokes. Also avoid to do those things during love making activity due to which her body fluids like saliva could not reach into your body.
Janab Izat muab kaan saheb kyon khatre ki kan main hath dalte ho.. jesa ke doctorKK ne btaya you need extreme precautions.. Most people avoid sex when one partner is affected by HIV.. Extreme ka matlab ager nahee pata to yun keh le ke Danger ! Danger ! Danger !!!
What you mean by "Also avoid to do those things during love making activity due to which her body fluids like saliva could not reach into your body". Saliva is
"Hypotonic" DOCOTR ? n virus can't survive in something as "harmless" as saliva. In fact, saliva is a part of the body's natural defenses against infection. Moreover, remember that the HIV virus is quite fragile.
I just want to comment on Saliva since I have mentioned it in my previous post among any of the body fluids. Conditions that could carry out transmission of HIV via Saliva;
Bleeding Gums while kissing
Vigorous mouth licking and saliva transmission with blood
Sore throat and mouth ulcers and contamination of saliva with blood.
I agreed that saliva is not the direct source of HIV transmission, but one should still be careful.
I am firm believer that a little knowledge is always dangerous.
In order to get infected with HIV you must get a sufficient amount of the virus in your body. Yeah saliva does contain HIV, but the virus is only present in very small quantities and as such cannot cause HIV infection.
Unless both partners have large open sores in their mouths, or severely bleeding gums, there is no transmission risk from mouth-to-mouth kissing.
"In order to get infected with HIV you must get a sufficient amount of the virus in your body. Yeah saliva does contain HIV, but the virus is only present in very small quantities and as such cannot cause HIV infection".
Epidemiological data have supported the premise that HIV transmission via saliva is low or non-existent. Inhibitory factors in saliva include isotonicity, secretory IgA, salivary agglutinin proteins, and secretory leukocyte protease inhibitor. However, oral infection with HIV in semen appears to be possible, although at a reduced level than that seen via rectal/vaginal intercourse. Animal studies confirm that HIV can be transmitted via the oral tissues, and infect oral lymphoid cells, tonsils, as well as the salivary glands. Oral trauma, co-infections with other sexually transmitted pathogens, periodontal diseases, concomitant ulcerative lesions, drug use, and smoking might further enhance oral HIV transmission. Oral tissues support HIV replication and may serve as a previously unrecognized HIV reservoir. Local HIV production from oropharyngeal sites may be a key source of rebound virus that leads to virological failure in patients receiving highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART.) Most HIV+ patients have more virus in blood than saliva, possibly due to the potent HIV- inhibitory properties of saliva. However, some individuals are hyper-excretors of HIV, carrying more HIV in saliva than in blood. HAART therapy may not reduce HIV in saliva; for example, titers of HIV actually go up in semen of hyper-excretors when the patient is put on HAART. With such high levels of infectious HIV in their saliva, hyper-excretors may be at risk of transmitting the virus to their partners even though the blood levels are low.
(Source: National Institute Of Dental And Cranio-facial Research-www.grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/rfa-files/RFA-DE-02-001.html)
"Unless both partners have large open sores in their mouths, or severely bleeding gums, there is no transmission risk from mouth-to-mouth kissing".
Answer: Please Prove Your Statement
"I am firm believer that a little knowledge is always dangerous".
Answer: I am a firm believer that a lay person always possess less knowledge than a doctor.
"Doctor” you have already proved my statement to be correct in your following rebuttal.
"Epidemiological data have supported the premise that HIV transmission via saliva is low or non-existent"
And you know what? Hyper-Excretors of saliva have to excrete quantity of as low as 5 gallons of spit (saliva) and other party has to gulp down all quickly to get infected. Oh 5 gallons of spit we are talking un-real funny chronicles here .
Come on "Doctor" I had just made a general statement, "I am firm believer that a little knowledge is always dangerous". I was not questioning any body's credentials though I can question even as a lay-man cos knowledge is not the possession of one.
HIV AIDS - What Are Precautions During Intercourse (Sex)?
Unless both partners have large open sores in their mouths, or severely bleeding gums, there is no transmission risk from mouth-to-mouth kissing".
"Doctor"you have already proved my statement to be correct in your following rebuttal.
"Epidemiological data have supported the premise that HIV transmission via saliva is low or non-existent"
Answer: This is not the proof of your statement. My point is that if saliva is mixed with ulcers in the mouth, bleeding gums, vigorous mouth licking and sore throat etc as I have mentioned above, HIV could be transmitted. Or in other words you say that the infected substance from sore throat or ulcers directly come into contact with other person while kissing. What you have said is written above. What do you mean by large open sores in mouths, severely bleeding gums? Whether infected substance can't come out unless there would be large open sores or severe bleeding gums? Where have you studied that? Where have you see that? You haven't coated the full paragraph mentioned above where it is written that some people may have more salivary secretion of HIV compared to their blood. Who told that until 5 gallon of saliva would not be spitted out, HIV couldn't be transmitted? Remember, if saliva is contaminated, a tiny drop could be enough to ruin the life of other person.
After all I appreciate you to have a nice discussion with me on this subject of HIV transmission via oral secretions. People could have imagination about HIV transmission via saliva by any of the following manner.
Saliva can never be the source of HIV transmission even with out contamination
Saliva can rarely be the source of HIV transmission
Saliva can be the source of HIV transmission only where there is large open ulcers and severe sore throat.
Saliva can be the source of HIV transmission when there are mouth ulcers and sore throat of varying degrees.
Now I leave it on readers that they search and enquire by themselves to find out which statement out of four as above is true. I will also be highly obliged if other members of the forum including doctors would write down their comments. Thanks
What I first meant was that you have agreed that HIV cannot be transmitted via saliva by writing Epidemiological data have supported the premise that HIV transmission via saliva is low or non-existent" so that is it, (the end of a circled debate) this is what I said in my first response that saliva is not a source of HIV and it is Hypotonic" and virus can't survive in something as "harmless" as saliva. In fact, saliva is a part of the body's natural defenses against infection. Moreover, remember that the HIV virus is quite fragile.
And your rebuttal was a long story stating the same thing that “Epidemiological data have supported the premise that HIV transmission via saliva is low or non-existent" more over I said that HIV can be transmitted if only both partners have large open sores in their mouths, or severely bleeding gums, there is no transmission risk from mouth-to-mouth kissing" so which part of it you don’t get Doctor. And now here you are stating the same conditions:
Saliva can never be the source of HIV transmission even without contamination
Saliva can rarely be the source of HIV transmission
Saliva can be the source of HIV transmission only where there is large open ulcers and severe sore throat.
Saliva can be the source of HIV transmission when there are mouth ulcers and sore throat of varying degrees.
“Doctor” you also proclaimed that Remember, if saliva is contaminated, a tiny drop could be enough to ruin the life of other person. I ask what do you mean by saying if saliva is contaminated (impure, infected, and dirty) a tiny drop of saliva can ruin a life, why did u not elaborate how one drop can ruin a life, Your 4 bulleted points on Saliva well explain that a tiny contaminated drop can ruin a life only if there is a blood contact. So my stand still remains the same that Saliva will cause HIV if there is a blood contact by just swallowing even HIV contaminated saliva HIV would not be caused and 5 gallons was hypothetically coated just to tell you that even swallowing litters of HIV infected Saliva HIV cannot be transmitted, and there has to be a blood contact.You also asked that? Where it is written that some people may have more salivary secretion of HIV compared to their blood.My dear “Doctor” it was written in your own plagiarized content which reads as:
However, some individuals are hyper-excretors of HIV, carrying more HIV in saliva than in blood.
The following are additional body fluids that may transmit the virus however only medical professionals are exposed to them
fluid surrounding the brain and the spinal cord
fluid surrounding bone joints
fluid surrounding an unborn baby
saliva and tears have HIV and sweat does not secrete it..
as prevention against HIV open mouth kiss is to be avoided with infected partner according to center of control of diseases and prevention(CDC)
yes there is no pure saliva to saliva transmission yet ever reported of HIV but saliva(of infected) to blood(of non-infected) can transmit HIV.
the reson to avoid open mouth kissing besides that the saliva of infected may contain blood (that may be so less as when floss teeth comes out(invisible) can cause transmission IS that excessive kissing may damage the mucous membrane of lip or mouth (of non-infected) and lead to Saliva(of infected) to blood of non-infected partner..
plus the cut in mouth may be so tiny as one gets while chewing food and accidently chew on cheek mucosa is enough to cause HIV transmission.
Its true There is no Saliva to Saliva transmission of HIV though saliva of HIV infected patients itself Do have HIV but NOT enough for Saliva To Saliva Transmission
If We Talk About Prevention The Three Basic Prevention Against Any STD beside The Usual Blood And Blood Related Products(factor VIII OR plasma etc) Are to Seperate Tooth Brushes, towels and Comb from the Infected Person
the Reason Told Is the same Saliva(containing micro droplets of blood) on tooth brush, towel with nasal Secretions with blood and Comb having blood due to Scratch or ulcer or eczematous eruption on sclap may be The cause of transmission of Infecting Organism
Latex Condoms:
when used consistently and correctly are highly effective in preventing HIV transmission.According to CDC many real life trials have proved their effecacy but are to be used consistently and correctly
latex condom provide an impermeable barrier to particles the size of HIV as demonstrated in lab studies...
plus poly urethane condoms are considered more thicker than latex BUT they lack clinical trials yet
HIV patients are not to be socially boycotted or even sexually by spouse as per clinical trials
HIV AIDS - What Are Precautions During Intercourse (Sex)?
A BAD COOK LICKS HIS OWN FINGERS
Persona! Sorry to inform you,
Whatever you wanted to debate has not been proven yet. Instead a lot of arguments in favour of my statements are there. Waterr! I really want to thank you and appreciate you for your excellent argument and thesis.
A doctor may some times say things which possess apparent meanings. As I have told before, "Also avoid to do those things during love making activity due to which her body fluids like saliva could not reach into your body" and that's my statement has started the rebuttal argumentations (so called by Persona). In my above statement, the point is towards transmission of HIV either directly or indirectly. If still Persona is unable to understand what I meant to say then for his kind knowledge, I want to elaborate this statement further. In medicine there is nothing which is final. Despite saliva is least likely the source of transmission of HIV, but still it is the source of transmission, and being a doctor, when we advice for prevention we never ignore even a minor things like the pin head.
Haven't you seen Persona! A brilliant young doctor waterr, has too excellently explained the things? Still you need more arguments or feel like I beat about the bush? How many more annotations you will require further?
"Half Truth is dangerous than full lie"
Persona! You have stuck with a single starting line that, "Epidemiological data have supported the premise that HIV transmission via saliva is low or non-existent" but you don't bother to read full text of the abstract.
The above lines in fact are not the end of circled debate, what ever you told about saliva was not the complete truth. You have declared it Hypotonic and by means of that you meant HIV couldn't be transferred even with contaminated saliva as you told that it can't survive in saliva.
in further for the support of your argument mentioned above you have mentioned that, "Unless both partners have large open sores in their mouths, or severely bleeding gums, there is no transmission risk from mouth-to-mouth kissing"." these things show that you are in favor that:
·If any of the husband and wife is suffering from HIV AIDS, then they are allowed to perform open mouth kissing and don't scared to have ingestion of saliva of the partner, isn't?
Being a medical professional, my eyes are not only on the things which are strongly possible, but also I wouldn't give any advice to my patients that may produce harm even as 1000 times less.
It's my humble request to Persona! To please study carefully whatever has been written by waterr as for prevention.
Remember, there is no cure of AIDS and a person acquires affronted death soon after getting the illness. Perhaps a minute mistake of us may demolish the life of an innocent person!
In medical terminology the word contamination means a thing which has got germs. The dimensions of a tiny drop could be explained on physics not on the medical grounds. The meanings of using the word tiny drop are to explain that there is no need of 5 gallons productions of saliva for transmission of HIV (as proclaimed by Persona that hyper-excretion of saliva means to produce 5 gallons of saliva).
"Saliva will cause HIV if there is a blood contact by just swallowing even HIV contaminated saliva HIV would not be caused"
About your above statement: Persona!
·Again, ""Half Truth is dangerous than full lie" for general information this is true but not enough in "Preventive medicine".
·Your statement," Unless both partners have large open sores in their mouths, or severely bleeding gums, there is no transmission risk from mouth-to-mouth kissing". is totally contradicting. For blood contact whether it is mandatory to have large open sores in mouths of both of the sexual partners? Or is it mandatory to have severely bleeding gums? Isn't over-riding about certain fact?
CDC has a lot of documented cases of HIV, among them there are cases of HIV transmission via "Contaminated Saliva". Please search by yourself these cases, and I am hopeful you would find them easily.
Even CDC do have now the case(s) in which HIV transmission has happened via non-usual routes i.e, via kissing and in reason it is said that this transmission has happened due to contaminated saliva with blood.
It has been stated now that, Body fluids like saliva, sweats, tears or urine are not the well known source of HIV transmission, however; if the blood is contaminated with these fluids, then there is no question of transmission of HIV with these fluids as well.
Remember, in an HIV infected person, there are always mouth ulcers and sores present due to immunodeficiency, and hence kissing with an HIV infected person (due to contact with blood and contaminated saliva) is at high risk of transmission.
CDC strongly prohibit deep mouth to mouth kissing with HIV infected person.
·Isn't a single tiny sore or hidden bleeding (patechial Hemorrhages) in the mouth if happening would transmit the disease.
·If it is not enough for you Persona! These lines of waterr, "as prevention against HIV open mouth kiss is to be avoided with infected partner according to center of control of diseases and prevention (CDC)", then for your information find these lines on the web side of CDC:
You cannotget HIV:
By working with or being around someone who has HIV.
From sweat, spit, tears, clothes, drinking fountains, phones, toilet seats, or through everyday things like sharing a meal.
From insect bites or stings.
From donating blood.
From a closed-mouth kiss (but there is averysmall chance of getting it from open-mouthed or "French" kissing with an infected person because of possible blood contact).
Doctor K K: If there is small chance of open-mouthed and French kissing then it never rules out that a couple is allowed to do such things while foreplay, isn't Persona?
Where it is written that some people may have more salivary secretion of HIV compared to their blood?
Answer: Yes! It is written in the above paragraph of mine and that is true, some people have more salivary secretions of HIV as compared to blood. Since you have given reference of my own paragraph, it means you have also accepted the same thing and hence I would like to congratulate you on your successful understandings and that's the thing that I wanted to let you know.
Thanks DoctorKK for your appreciation and Acknowledgment.
Honestly, this argument has No sound basis at all
1) Saliva though being one of the defence system of body( skin, cellular (cells,antibody) , secretions(including tears , saliva etc) and lymphoid tissue being others) DOES transmit many diseasesVia direct saliva to saliva (pure contact) including STI's like KSHV (kaposi sarcoma associated Herpes virus), mononucleosis and many day to day paedriactic Infections
2)Fact is That NONE of The KNOWN inhibitory factors, proteins , secretory factors and proteases In pure saliva Are Yet proved To be cause of HIV non-transmissionability(pure saliva to saliva) RATHER an UNKNOWN substance is Thought to be There
3) Diseases like Aids and viruses lie HIV Attack the Immune System or defence system of body with their excellent mutant properties from there ONE cycle to other are never expected to follow NORMS.
4) Vagina has been for a while Considered More cleaner and its secretions More purer than mouth or oral secretions by medical people due to Its PH and Presence of ONLY one bacteria That is lactobacillus and our oral cavity has numerous And that is why rate of vaginal transmission of infections is less than Blood. THOUGH now this theory Doesnt hold much ground but one Cnt know things without Clinical trials
5) clinical trials show HAART resistance in patient who Secrete More HIV in saliva than normal.
Having read your very hard-worked chronicles which were out of total frustration and agony. Now with all due respect I have to state the following:
Wow! what a nice way u had to show that how informative? Updated? Skill full? and good of a doctor you are? “Doctor” well I think you generally like to beat your chest and claim victory hhmm.
I have jotted down some of your points to respond to.
Doctor KK says: In medicine there is nothing which is final.
Are you defending yourself here by saying that whatever you said is not final and u r not sure about it cos in medicine there is nothing which is final? Oh Come on Doctor, I respect you profession.
Doctor KK says: Saliva the least likely the source of HIV transmission but still is the source of transmission.
Doctor either you on purpose don’t want to understand me or there is something seriously wrong with your level of understanding, ok tell me? when did I say that blood-contaminated saliva cannot transmit HIV, in fact this is what I have been saying that saliva (containing HIV) alone cannot transmit HIV and there has to be some sort of blood contact?
Doctor KK says: Haven't you seen Persona! A brilliant young doctor waterr
Lols ! Yeah I have seen you as well a young _doctor kk ?
Doctor KK says Persona! You have stuck with a single starting line that, "Epidemiological data have supported the premise that HIV transmission via saliva is low or non-existent" but you don't bother to read full text of the abstract.
No Doctor, I did read your full plagiarized text and figured out that you yourself don’t know what u are talking about.
Doctor KK says : The above lines in fact are not the end of circled debate, what ever you told about saliva was not the complete truth. You have declared it Hypotonic and by means of that you meant HIV couldn't be transferred even with contaminated saliva as you told that it can't survive in saliva.
Ok you prove u just “prove” that if there is any saliva to saliva HIV transmission possible. By saying saliva Hypotonic I only meant that saliva alone cannot produce HIV transmission and there is no risk in mouth to mouth kissing, now let me school you that there is a difference of chalk and cheese between mouth to mouth kissing and open mouth kissing. I never used this word open mouth kissing cos I know what it really means and this is what waterr too has said. Read her carefully, she also talked about risk involved in open mouth kissing and same was said by control of diseases and prevention. Doctor you really need to read what young brilliant doctor “waterr”had said about HIV transmission, ok for your convenience I paste her statement here to bring an end to your over-excitement.Waterr wrote: yes there is no pure saliva to saliva transmission yet ever reported of HIV but saliva (of infected) to blood (of non-infected) can transmit HIV.
Doctor KK says: If any of the husband and wife is suffering from HIV AIDS, then they are allowed to perform open mouth kissing and don't scared to have ingestion of saliva of the partner, isn't?
Lols! Doctor now do I have to tell u to kindly learn to differentiate HIV and AIDS. “Doctor” did I ever use word open mouth kissing? Come one, show me that in my prose or acknowledge that you have been incoherent, jumbled and obnoxious.
Doctor KK says:If there is small chance of open-mouthed and French kissing then it never rules out that a couple is allowed to do such things while foreplay, isn't Persona?
Don’t try to perplex things here, I never used word open-mouth nor did I write French kiss, come-on doctor don’t try to quote things out of the context. If a wife is HIV infected so you would advise her husband not to even kiss her and foreplay her cos it never rules out chances of HIV transmission. This is one of the most absurd statement I have read and that of from a Doctor.
Waterr said: HIV patients are not to be socially boycotted or even sexually by spouse as per clinical trials. What do you say now? “Doctor”
You cannot get HIV: From a closed-mouth kiss (but there is a very small chance of getting it from open-mouthed or "French" kissing with an infected person because of possible blood contact, and casual contact through closed-mouth or "social" kissing is not a risk for transmission of HIV (CDC ).
HIV AIDS Transmission By Sex (Intercourse) - HIV AIDS Transmission By Kissing (Salivary)?
"A FISH OUT OF WATER"………. My dear! You are waving now
Persona: Having read your very hard-worked chronicles which were out of total frustration and agony. Now with all due respect I have to state the following:
Doctor K K: Thanks a lot to regard my work as hard work. Well it seems after reading your writing that I am less frustrated than you.
Persona: Well I think you generally like to beat your chest and claim victory.
Doctor K K: I am not fond of claiming to get victory. Victory is coming automatically to me.
According to Persona: Doctor KK says:In medicine there is nothing which is final. Are you defending yourself here by saying that
According to Doctor K K, Doctor K K says: Defense is the first step to attack. The great worries have been good defenders. Yes! Of course, nothing is final in medicine, but few people are there who have narrow mind to understand the meanings of words. If you can't understand what is present beside the words then you should not come into any arguments. In medicine many things have been changed now since even few years ago. Still research is going on. How can a clinician could proclaimed that his words are final, isn't?
Few times back, there was no case of salivary contaminated transmission of HIV, but now CDC possesses these cases. Whether not I am updating you?
Persona: I respect you profession.
Doctor K K: Thanks a lot
Persona: When did I say that blood-contaminated saliva cannot transmit HIV, in fact this is what I have been saying that saliva (containing HIV) alone cannot transmit HIV and there has to be some sort of blood contact?
Doctor K K: Read your paragraphs please:
In order to get infected with HIV you must get a sufficient amount of the virus in your body. Yeah saliva does contain HIV, but the virus is only present in very small quantities and as such cannot cause HIV infection. Unless both partners have large open sores in their mouths, or severely bleeding gums, there is no transmission risk from mouth-to-mouth kissing.
I ask what do you mean by saying if saliva is contaminated (impure, infected, and dirty) a tiny drop of saliva can ruin a life, why did u not elaborate how one drop can ruin a life, Your 4 bulleted points on Saliva well explain that a tinycontaminateddrop can ruin a life only if there is a blood contact. So my stand still remains the same that Saliva will cause HIV if there is a blood contact by just swallowing even HIV contaminated saliva HIV would not be caused and 5 gallons was hypothetically coated just to tell you that even swallowing litters of HIV infected Saliva HIV cannot be transmitted, and there has to be a blood contact.
Doctor K K: First you didn't understand the meaning of contamination and when you realized it, you have taken the U turn. Now you are saying that you haven't told that HIV couldn't be transmitted via contaminated saliva. Please read the above read marked lines. You have told that HIV must be sufficient in your body for infection and saliva does contain very little amount of HIV therefore; it can't cause infection. If you read my previous post then it must be cleared upon you that some people are there who does have more HIV in their contaminated saliva as compared to body. Therefore; your statement is not true. CDC prohibits mouth to mouth kissing and you encouraging! How amazing you are? In my opinion your concept about contamination is not clear. You are using the word of blood contact and still not know what contamination is? By saying this, "just to tell you that even swallowinglitters of HIV infected Saliva HIV cannot be transmitted,what do you mean? Your statements are too much contradicting with each other. Isn't Persona?
Persona:Doctor KK says:Haven't you seen Persona! A brilliant young doctor waterr Lols !Yeah I have seen you as well a young _doctor k k?
Doctor K K: So nice for me that after attaining the age of 33 I a am still young!
Persona:No Doctor, I did read your full plagiarized text and figured out that you yourself don't know what u are talking about.
Doctor K K: Again I would say, Infact again and again, "A bad cook…………."
Persona: Ok you prove u just "prove" that if there is any saliva to saliva HIV transmission possible. By saying saliva Hypotonic I only meant that saliva alone cannot produce HIV transmission and there is no risk in mouth to mouth kissing, now let me school you that there is a difference of chalk and cheese between mouth to mouth kissing and open mouth kissing. I never used this word open mouth kissing cos I know what it really means and this is what waterr too has said. Read her carefully, she also talked about risk involved in open mouth kissing and same was said by control of diseases and prevention. Doctor you really need to read what young brilliant doctor"waterr"had said about HIV transmission, ok for your convenience I paste her statement here to bring an end to your over-excitement.Waterr wrote: yes there is no pure saliva to saliva transmission yet ever reported of HIV but saliva (of infected) to blood (of non-infected) can transmit HIV.
Doctor K K: Persona is wanted to do my schooling. Welcome dear……. But before doing that make yourself able to do it. Using the word mouth-to-mouth kiss and don't know its meaning? Marvelous! Now I have to explain the subject (waste of time).
Kiss: An act to express the feelings of deep love and emotions with lips.
Types of Kiss:
Religious: kissing the holy books like Quran, Torah and Bible
Loving: kissing to the forehead (giving the honor to some body), kissing on the cheek of a kid – mouth to- cheek kiss)
Sexual: Mouth to mouth kiss which is always come in the heading of sexual kiss. It has two types:
Closed mouth kiss: kissing on the lips only
Opened mouth Kiss: kissing and licking inside the mouth (French kiss).
Do I need schooling Persona or you? If you have used the word of mouth to mouth kissing it means it includes French kissing as well and hence you have rejected to accept that HIV can't be transmitted via this.
Persona: "Prove" that if there is any saliva to saliva HIV transmission possible.
Doctor K K: The current debate is not on saliva to saliva transmission. It is on whether saliva (contaminated) is responsible for HIV transmission or not. Don't divert the topic.
Persona: Doctor now do I have to tell u to kindly learn to differentiate HIV and AIDS."Doctor"did I ever use word open mouth kissing? Come one, show me that in my prose or acknowledge that you have been incoherent, jumbled and obnoxious.
Doctor K K: Now you should learn that mouth to mouth kiss means the kiss that involves the mouth cavity of two persons. The sub classes of it are open and closed mouth kissing. Next time use the words after having full knowledge and information.
Persona: Don't try to perplex things here, I never used word open-mouth nor did I write French kiss, come-on doctor don't try to quote things out of the context. If a wife is HIV infected so you would advise her husband not to even kiss her and foreplay her cos it never rules out chances of HIV transmission. This is one of the most absurd statement I have read and that of from a Doctor.
Doctor K K: When such a couple would come to me then I would explain each and every thing to them. I would explain them by using the words of open mouth and closed mouth kissing. I would also explain them how to do foreplay and how to do intercourse. I would also explain them the further medical concerns. Being a doctor I know better my job. I know better than a patient and a non-professional person.
Persona: Waterr said:HIV patients are not to be socially boycotted or even sexually by spouse as per clinical trials. What do you say now?"Doctor"
Doctor K K: What comes in sexual boycott: Keeping away one self from a spouse having lethal illness like HIV/ AIDS and not to indulge with any sexual activity including closed mouth kiss foreplay etc.
What comes in Prevention of HIV/ AIDS:A person is allowed to indulge with sexual activity with the spouse having HIV / AIDS in such a way in that he or she would be prevented from the disease. Should I need to write again the points of CDC that I have mentioned above persona?
Read my all debates and writings and declare to which group I belong? Whether I come in sexual boycott or in the other group?
I think Persona this debate should be ended now with the correction of this misconception that mouth to mouth kissing is different from opened mouth kissing. If still you are unable to understand, or you need further schooling then take the admission in medical college and spend five years over there. After that spend some times in medical practice and then you would understand whatever we know as doctors and you are unaware.
You even cannot understand English properly? I didn't admire you by saying hard work Doctor I said your chronicles were hard-worked, I meant u tried very hard to write in English (u get what I mean doctor)?
Doctor K K says: I am not fond of claiming to get victory. Victory is coming automatically to me.
You again are beating your chest Doctor. I know how desperate you are, but trust me I didn't want to question your credentials but it just happened that way, I can feel for you only.
Doctor K K says: Defense is the first step to attack. The great worries have been good defenders. Yes! Of course, nothing is final in medicine, but few people are there who have narrow mind to understand the meanings of words. If you can't understand what is present beside the words then you should not come into any arguments. In medicine many things have been changed now since even few years ago. Still research is going on. How can a clinician could proclaimed that his words are final, isn't?
You know what Doctor you communication skills are not bad they are terrible. I was not talking about general medicine or medical research doctor try to get English; let the common sense prevail here if you cannot explain your own point of view and lack lingo-skills then you are the one who needs to work on it really hard. I was only talking about your stand on Saliva being source of HIV transmission not medicine or medical research. I still say there is no Saliva to saliva transmission (and please don't mix your confused English by saying that you were talking about contaminated saliva). Saliva still can be contaminated with HIV only and can also be contaminated with HIV and blood droplets, these are two separatethings.
Doctor K K says:Few times back, there was no case of salivary contaminated transmission of HIV, but now CDC possesses these cases. Whether not I am updating you?
Yeah I know how much updated u yourself are let alone u doing others.
Doctor K K says: Doctor K K: Read your paragraphs please:
In order to get infected with HIV you must get a sufficient amount of the virus in your body. Yeah saliva does contain HIV, but the virus is only present in very small quantities and as such cannot cause HIV infection. Unless both partners have large open sores in their mouths, or severely bleeding gums, there is no transmission risk from mouth-to-mouth kissing.
Oh goodness me doctor!(In order to get infected with HIV you must get a sufficient amount of the virus in your body) this was in the context of saliva to saliva transmission.(Unless both partners have large open sores in their mouths, or severely bleeding gums, there is no transmission risk from mouth-to-mouth kissing) and this line means I am talking about the blood contact, that if there are no sores, cuts, bleeding inside the mouth or on the lips then there are no chances of HIV transmission even with kissing (mouth to mouth means on lips but this doesn't mean open mouth or French).
Now I have diagnosed your syndrome, doctor I regret to tell you that you are suffering from "language barrier".You just don't get to understand English properly and you yet work and try hard which is however appreciable. So keep trying, and this ongoing exercise will surely benefit you.
Doctor K K says:First you didn't understand the meaning of contamination and when you realized it, you have taken the U turn. Now you are saying that you haven't told that HIV couldn't be transmitted via contaminated saliva. Please read the above read marked lines. You have told that HIV must be sufficient in your body for infection and saliva does contain very little amount of HIV therefore; it can't cause infection. If you read my previous post then it must be cleared upon you that some people are there who does have more HIV in their contaminated saliva as compared to body. Therefore; your statement is not true. CDC prohibits mouth to mouth kissing and you encouraging! How amazing you are? In my opinion your concept about contamination is not clear. You are using the word of blood contact and still not know what contamination is? By saying this, "just to tell you that even swallowing litters of HIV infected Saliva HIV cannot be transmitted,what do you mean? Your statements are too much contradicting with each other. Isn't Persona?
You love to play blame games doctor don't you? I knew what contaminationmeans, it's not a rocket science, but it was u who didn't understand my point and jumped to a conclusion and went writing phrases of confused thougts , so problem was again with your understanding, not mine. Ok let me paste one of your lines on contaminated saliva hope this will clear the clouds for you.
Doctor K K said:Even CDC do have now the case(s) in which HIV transmission has happened via non-usual routes i.e, via kissing and in reason it is said that this transmission has happened due to contaminated saliva with blood.
Now what do mean by saying contaminated saliva with blood? Off course when I said contaminated (impure, infected, polluted) Saliva I meant saliva containing HIV only not blood,but u seem to have made up a habit of both beating about the bush and chest. Doctor there can be two sort of saliva-contaminations one with only HIV and second with blood as well. I againchallenge you to prove this: If a person A has HIV in his Saliva so his saliva is to called Contaminated with HIV ok , and if he spits it in another person B'smouth (without blood contamination) and person B gulps it down. Will there b an HIV transmission in person B? Even if person B drinks litters of HIV-infected saliva (without droplets of blood) would he still not remain safe? Doctor this was the simplest English I could write for your understanding.
Doctor K K says: CDC prohibits mouth to mouth kissing
Ok now let us read the below paragraph copied from CDC website.
Kissing
Casual contact through closed-mouth or "social" kissing is not a risk for transmission of HIV. Because of the potential for contact with blood during "French" or open-mouth kissing, CDC recommends against engaging in this activity with a person known to be infected. However, the risk of acquiring HIV during open-mouth kissing is believed to be very low. CDC has investigated only one case of HIV infection that may be attributed to contact with blood during open-mouth kissing.
Doctor even CDC is claiming open-mouth kissing to be at low risk, so mouth to mouth kissing (which means closed mouth, in-checked, careful lip to lip kissing) can even be out of the equation can't it be?
Doctor K K: Persona is wanted to do my schooling. Welcome dear……. But before doing that make yourself able to do it. Using the word mouth-to-mouth kiss and don't know its meaning? Marvelous! Now I have to explain the subject (waste of time).
Doctor K K: Kiss an act to express the feelings of deep love and emotions with lips.
Lols! If only u would use KISS approach in your long stories, KISS (Keep It Short n Simple).
Doctor K K:Do I need schooling Persona or you? If you have used the word of mouth to mouth kissing it means it includes French kissing as well and hence you have rejected to accept that HIV can't be transmitted via this.
Off course you do need doctor cos this is u who has failed to understand the concept of mouth to mouth kissing, and you now by hook or crook wants mouth to mouth kissing to be understood as open mouth and French kissing, what a shame doctor that u are trying to hide your deficiency of understanding English.Doctor let me again tell u that mouth to mouth kissing explains lip kissing but open mouth kissing takes it to the next level which may have an HIV transmission risk of low level. And when I am saying that HIV can be transmitted through sores, cuts inside the mouth and we all know that French/Open-mouth kissing can lead to cuts inside the mouth so why would I use mouth to mouth kissing in context of French or open moth kissing, talk some sense doctor.
Doctor K K: The current debate is not on saliva to saliva transmission. It is on whether saliva (contaminated) is responsible for HIV transmission or not. Don't divert the topic.
You are again running in a circle with no way out, Doctor, the subject-matter is also on saliva (contaminated) with HIV only not with blood. But u purposely want to perplex things and turn it your way which u cannot.
Doctor K K: When such a couple would come to me then I would explain each and every thing to them. I would explain them by using the words of open mouth and closed mouth kissing. I would also explain them how to do foreplay and how to do intercourse. I would also explain them the further medical concerns. Being a doctor I know better my job. I know better than a patient and a non-professional person.
I can only pray cos (neem hakeem khatra-e- jaan).
Doctor K K:What comes in sexual boycott: Keeping away oneself from a spouse having lethal illness like HIV/ AIDS and not to indulge with any sexual activity including closed mouth kiss foreplay etc.
What comes in Prevention of HIV/ AIDS:A person is allowed to indulge with sexual activity with the spouse having HIV / AIDS in such a way in that he or she would be prevented from the disease. Should I need to write again the points of CDC that I have mentioned above persona?
Read my all debates and writings and declare to which group I belong? Whether I come in sexual boycott or in the other group?
Lols! Doctor you are a hard nut to crack really and trying to be difficult and defensive. what a pity!
Doctor K K:I think Persona this debate should be ended now with the correction of this misconception that mouth to mouth kissing is different from opened mouth kissing. If still you are unable to understand, or you need further schooling then take the admission in medical college and spend five years over there. After that spend some times in medical practice and then you would understand whatever we know as doctors and you are unaware.
misconception that mouth to mouth kissingDoctor it sounds like that you have acknowledged you r mistake in your heart and now shaping it towards me. Dear Doctor? I know how you are feeling after getting some real tweaks, but I swear I never meant to question your knowledge, I now that you are very knowledgeable? Doctor, who has spent 5 years in a college and done medical practice? I can also understand that no Doctor would like the idea of getting exposed over the internet and be in a catch 22 situation, but the fact is that u have been questioned , exposed and now are in a real catch 22 situation.
I need the final results If I can not kiss her meet (Mubasherat)her with HIV effected wife & she stay at home all the day when I come from duty what her rection away from home country Please advise Thanks
HIV AIDS Transmission By Sex (Intercourse) - HIV AIDS Transmission By Kissing (Salivary)?
It seems like that Persona had been terrified and hence he has started to make unsuccessful efforts in order to prove that my English is very poor. I can't understand English, I can't write in English, I have been beating about the bush etc.....
Now its time to close the things since being a professional doctor I have a lot of work to do and I don't have enough time to waste in this talk.
Whatever I told, I am satisfied that it was right. I don't want to comment about whatever Persona has written is right or wrong.
Those who are regular and first time visitor of this website, if require to know about this subject would read by themselves. They would judge by themselves that what is wrong and what is right. I wouldn't write a single more line after writing these few lines as below:
A true Story:
One day Moses (PBUH) had been running through from a place. Some body asked from him, "O Moses! why are you running? who is after you?"
Moses replied, "Nescient"
Moral: Congnoscence always runs away from Nescience
Ending lines: I don't want to prove whatever I told is right or wrong. Educated people visit this site and they would guess by themselves what is right and wrong. Also I don't want to prove that I know English very well. People know what I am and how much my expertise are there.
1. You can have close-mouth kissing but you might want to refrain from kissing of enormous passion e.g.; open-mouth and French kissing; however it is believed to be of very low risk byCDC.
2. Stay away from biting while kissing (You both).
3. Use latex condoms while intercourse.
May ALLAH bestow us with good health and protect us from illness. (Health is wealth)
Warning :The information presented in this web site is not intended as a substitute for medical care. Please talk with your healthcare provider about any information you get from this web site.
HIV AIDS Transmission By Sex (Intercourse) - HIV AIDS Transmission By Kissing (Salivary)?
Intercourse With Wife Having HIV: Precautions?
kaan